Last month, the U.S. and Israeli governments signed an agreement for Israel to buy a squadron of twenty F-35’s, which would give them the ability to reach Iran undetected by radar.
The Israelis are generally thought to be the best fighting force in the world. Although personally, I believe that OURS is, the world has good reason to acknowledge Israel as a great fighting force.
In an area where they are almost completely surrounded by their enemies, the Israelis have held their own really well in battle time and again and have never backed down from any of their enemies.
Now, Ehud Shani, the Israeli Minister of Defense, believes that the squadron of F-35’s that we are selling them will shift the balance of power in the Middle East.
Because of their history and of Iran’s suspected nuclear program, Israel considers Iran to be a threat and a squadron of F-35’s will allow them to more effectively defend their own borders and with the F-35’s stealth capabilities, launch their own counter-attack without Iran being able to see them coming on radar.
As a future officer and fighter pilot, you need to know about hot spots like this. It really helps to know just who our allies are, whom they are fighting against, and why we are supporting them.
In a world where it seems like our enemies and allies keep changing with each generation, you’re going to want to know all you can about whom you may be flying side by side with and what their mission is.
Do you think it’s smart of us to support Israel by selling them F-35’s? Why or why not?
Matt says
Hi Ed,
Thank you for the email/article that youve sent. To the point, selling Israel the fighters was not a very smart move. although Israel is our Allie, and we should stand for our friends, but some of their enemies are of critical help to our troops in the region. By picking sides at this juncture, may alienate those elements that have been help to us, and may even turn them into enemies. which in turn will put our troops in danger.
we should have sold them weapons, but not something that would clearly over power Israel on some of our allies. especially since there is strong hate between israel and its neighbors. Perhaps its the right thing for an alley to do, but it is a huge diplomatic mistake.
Anonymous says
I agree with Matt. You never know who can turn on us. We should always strive to best country in the world and not give away our secrets that they can use to attack us in the future.
Dave Eberhardt says
Ed,
Israel is just catching up … 20 planes, even of the caliber of the F-35, is not enough to alienate our friends in the region (at least privately). Most countries in the region despise and fear Iran more than Israel (maybe not publicly). Israel has already demonstrated long range capabilities in a previous exercise. It would be interesting to see how the F-35’s would be emplyed IF an attack on Iran were indeed ever launched.
(I’m am former USAF Instructor Pilot, T-38, KC-135A&R models, vet of first Gulf War)
Gil says
I think that selling Israel f-35 is great move. Israel is our ally and they even built some of the parts for the f-35.
Oferiko.com says
“Ehud Shani, the Israeli Minister of Defense”???
I think his name is Ehud BARAK…
Michael says
Seeing as how we’re already partnered with everybody but Santa Clause on the F-35 program…
I think Israel should get F-35s, and some of our closer Middle-East allies should be offered them as well – Saudi Arabia for instance. Despite the ‘stealth’ features of the F-35, I don’t believe it will be any more of a deciding factor in Air Combat than the F-15 was in its day.
Dave Eberhardt says
ok ..it’s Udi Shani and he is Director General …
from Lockheed Martin website:
“FORT WORTH, Texas, October 7th, 2010…Israeli Ministry of Defense Director General (Maj. Gen. Ret.) Udi Shani signed the Letter of Offer and Acceptance for the procurement of the F-35 aircraft … “
Gal says
2 Questions: A) What will happen if Israel decides to throw out all their wepons? B) What would happen if the Arab countries decided to throw out their wepons? Obvious answer: A) Israel would be vanished from the face of the earth. B) There would be peace in the middle east.
Just food for thought….
Lovely article keep it up !
Tim Karamalak says
First build the F-35s then think about selling them to Israel…. but first I want to see the expensive product get to a count to twenty fighters…. I highly doubt it…
Dave Eberhardt says
The F-35 will be used by the Air Force to replace F16 and A10 and be used primarily in the air-to-ground role. The F-22 Raptor is the air-to-air fighter. The introduction of the F22 is more significant than was the introduction of the F15 in the same role back in its day.
http://www.jsf.mil/history/his_f35.htm
Frederick Middlebrooks says
As was stated towards the end of the post, our allies and enemies are constantly changing. Mainly because of that factor, I don’t agree with selling another country any of our newly acquired, top of the line technology whether it be fighter jets, weapons, or anything to be used by their defense department. If we are to support Israel, I would see it being less risky to use our military to provide assistance rather than equiping others with our technology.
Anonymous says
I think it is a good idea to support Israel through the selling of f-35’s. The radical extremist Islamic world wants to wipe out Israel and to keep them from doing this we need to support and help the Israeli people.
Gil says
If there was no israel, there would still be no peace in the middle east. The Palestinians are also hated by the Jordanians and other countries.
Ed Rush says
You guys have got some pretty good points there. I’d like to offer some counter-points though.
Given our history with the other nations of the region, it’s a LOT less likely that Israel would turn on us than some of our ‘allies’ who have been of assistance to us in the current war. Remember that everyone has their on agenda.
Also, even if you think that selling Israel fighters and armaments is a diplomatic mistake, sending our own troops to help defend Israel would be an even bigger one, as it would get us directly involved in a war that is not ours, particularly when we’re still in a couple of our own. And it would give our politicians a lot of headaches.
All in all, I think we’re better off selling armaments to a long-standing and trusted ally rather than fighting their wars for them and not worry if it ticks off some of our other ‘allies’ who are more likely to turn on us.
Why do you think that Israel would turn on us?
Neil Schettler says
This is a good strategic move. However, if one of these f-35’s is shot down or crashes over Iran, the technological capabilities of the F-35 could be captured by Iran (If the F-35 was intact). A good example of this is when the U.S. found a A6M Zero that crashed over Alaska during WW2. The plane was in good condition, and from this Grumman constructed the Hellcat after test flying the Zero. The U.S. now had a better fighter aircraft that out performed the Japanese Zero. My point is, we certainly don’t want Iran getting our blueprints for the F-35. The United States needs to be careful who gets these jets. Its only a matter of time before the enemy discovers the technology. And now, The T-50 (Russian), is the new answer to matching the F-22. It doesn’t take long before the tables turn.
Dave Eberhardt says
Hey Neil,
IF an F-35 was shot down over Iran … ? Are you serious? What are you postulating – a reconn sortie gone bad?
I’d love to see your data comparing the F-22 against a T-50. Does it come from the Huffington Post?
Dave Eberhardt says
Since this a a web site that is aimed at helping you become a future fighter pilot, you should keep in mind that being a fighter pilot means not only understanding the capabilities of your own jet vs other jets, but understanding that you are flying a weopon system. Part of that system is your jet and part of that system encompasses all the other assets that are employed with your jet.
Your F-22 or F-35 will not be employed by itself against, for example a T-50. The US and Israel have the most complete, well rounded armed forces, systems, people, tactics, technology, etc.
The Soviets or Iran or anybody else for that matter have quite a ways to go in understanding how to employ fighters like the F-22 or F-35. We’ve had some practice!
Perhaps Neil, we should ban India from coming over to Red Flag lest they share that knowledge with Russia???
Darin says
Interesting discussion. Stand-a-by for za wambring… (rambling)
The T-50 MIGHT be a very affordable solution to the F-22 / F-35 for countries that would clearly not be allowed to buy even export-versions of the Raptor and Lightning. That being said, could enough MiG-21s, -29s, Su-27 and -30s overwhelm our small number of F-22s & currently non-existent F-35s to allow the T-50 a fighting shot? Low observable technology is no longer the mystery it once was going back to the SR-71 and F-117. Upgrades in surface-to-air missile systems are constantly being tested and marketed. (Here’s another fantastic website – for those familiar with fas.org – http://www.ausairpower.net/). Airplanes are not invisible. And trust that if we do establish some advantage in the area of stealth billions of dollars are being spent simultaneously across the world to defeat it or at least reduce it’s effectiveness. Thus, our advantage may not be as great as we’d like to think.
Regarding the Israeli’s I totally agree with Ed. Americans would much rather arm Israel than send American troops to fight alongside them not that I think we wouldn’t if it came to that. Further, Israel has a documented penchant for leaning forward into it’s own defense and taking preemptive action and who could blame them. Re: “Raid on the Sun” by Roger Claire – a great read. Would probably make an amazing movie too; Munich-meets-Firefox-meets-IronEagle(I)-meets-TopGun. Munich for the determination, Firefox for the sneaking and awesome plan, Iron Eagle for the bombing and TG for the flying. Israeli F-35s would be a significant deterrent to an Iranian nuclear weapon. Do not discount what Israel is capable of doing with a very small number of airplanes and a metric truckload of motivation and experience. In essence the entire world could benefit if the threat of a successful Israeli air strike indefinitely prevented or delayed an Iranian nuclear weapon.
Air-to-air combat and surface-to-air-counter tactics techniques procedures, weapon systems and countermeasures development is an ever-on-going game of “move-counter-move.” When you’re ahead of the competition it’s not for long. Sometimes, even when you think you’re ahead, you fast-forward a few years to find out you really weren’t. Quite sobering. Bottom line, we’ll need fighters and fighter pilots for a while longer. And if we (America) doesn’t other countries will because we’re still a ways from remote control airplanes and robot truly running the battlefield. Plus (and here’s a concept to expand upon – and may be deserving of it’s own dedicated line of discussion) once we automate war to the degree that it might be going with remote controlled tanks / airplanes that can be operating in the eastern hemisphere and controlled in a little trailer in the western hemisphere – safe from the elements and hostile environment of real “combat”… once we shift to a level of automation exceeding are current capacity what reasons might there preventing us from committing our robots and our computers to combat in a foreign land? Would it not be easier to go to war? With less reason and justification? Because the blood cost would be arguably less? Isn’t war suppose to be expensive and not undertaken lightly?
Past, present & future warfighters, chew on that.
I am a Marine, I am a fighter pilot, I am a forward air controller and (most importantly) I am a husband and father. As much as I enjoy doing what I do, I don’t want my children to have to go to war unnecessarily. Certainly not if the decision to go can be made so easily and with an increasingly smaller regard to the cost.
Frederick Middlebrooks says
After reading some of the comments by Mr. Ed Rush it does seem to make more sense in selling Israel jets rather than fighting their war which would cost the U.S. a lot of money. However, I suppose I was looking more from an aspect of the types of jets we were giving them. The U.S. made agreements to sell F-15’s to Saudi Arabia. However, F-15’s are not our premier aircraft and can be outperformed by a good pilot in an F-16, F-18, or F-22. F-35’s would do more to level the playing field. However, I did not know of our strong history as an ally to Israel prior to reading Mr. Ed Rush’s post and considering that among other factors, it seems to be a safer bet to empower Israel to defend itself if and when the time arises.
Antonie Gouws says
Hey
Israel has been buying planes from the US for a long time. Their first fighter they bought was the Skyhawk. That’s way back. Why should the US stop selling weopons to an ally? Especially if take into consideration that the Jews and Americans are good friends. If the US abondon Israel, I believe it won’t take long before America begs Israel for weoponary, because Jews. They are a different breed. They re made to survive
Dave Eberhardt says
The F-22 and F-35 are great aicraft. If I were joining the Air Force soon, I would be sky high knowing I might have a chance to fly the F-22 because I’m convinced it is superior to anything else that’s flying today … or in the years to come.
Don’t forget, you will be taught the best tactics (Red Flag, or even Top Gun schools) and be employed with plenty of help (AWACs, etc). Factor in the best maintenance airmen, sailors, etc … and let’s face it – no other country can match the whole package that is there for you. Plus, you probably get paid better than them other guys.
Here’s a great shor t video related to Red Flag – http://military.discovery.com/videos/red-flag-thunder-at-nellis-the-aggressors.html
Ed – hope you don’t mind the posting about Red Flag
Sebastian says
Hi Ed
The answer to your question is no, because China already has a much more sophisticated fighter, and Israel has been selling secrets, while I am a supporter of Israel I am not in support of thier current administration just based on experience, I do think they have adequate security, and a great Air Force as well.
noname says
I am not on Israel side but i say its good idea to sell F-35 to Israel because Israel want to use the F-35 stealth technique to spy on Iran nuclear weapons and their movement
but if Iran spotted the F-35
This might make a war between Iran and Israel
and thats good for the us cuz i think the us hate Iran and the war between them would solve their problem cuz Israel is alley for the us and all the us Allys might join the war against Iran
and that lead to World War 3 to defeat Iran
I just said that for fun “don’t take it seriously” lol
Ardavan says
Hey,
I think selling F-35s to Israel might be good for both the countries, since it will make their bond stronger.
Iran will not be able to detect F-35 on its radar because of its stealthiness that is true,But we have to take into consideration that what will happen if somehow,Iran spot F-35 over its skies or as Neil Schettler said it gets shot down somehow by a(technical problem)?, then there will be a war.
As you know the gov. of Iran is being ignored by its people for 15+ years and USA or Israel need not to worry on how to attack Iran, because people will help these two countries troops to get rid of these stupid people.
So if US or Israel really want to spy over Iran’s nuclear program i would suggest them to send some reaper rather than 5th generation aircraft, by doing so the danger of capturing F-35 Technical capabilities will be Zero, and it will save a pilot’s life too.
I see how people do have an interest in war, as if it is a video game, but as Desiderius Erasmus said:
”war is delightful to those who did not experience it”.
Henry Muller says
Hey Ed,
It is in our best interest to supply Israel with the most sophisticated F-35. They the only reliable ally we have in this region. Everybody else will back stab us at first opportunity. Whoever could help us, as Mubarak, Obama sold out with no regret. And Israel destroys Iranian nuclear program, God bless them. The big threat to our security will be eliminated. We have stop to worry what kind of weapon they will use or how many Iranians will die. Stop playing the compassion game with those who did nothing but the damage to us. The life of just one of ours and Israeli pilots is much more precious than million of Iranians. Should they get a chance they would kill all of us.
babak says
Dear Henry Muller
I am Iranian and talk from people also.
If USA attack Iran ,No body want kill american pilots except Iran gov.,we bless American fighter pilots forever if USA attack Iran.
IF American combats come to Iran we support them , help them to shut down Iran gov.together.
Just it
GOD bless the USA
A suggest:
If you want have communicate with Iranian ,Trust Christians .
babak says
Henry, I’m not sure you are American because American pilots never say these things,,They are so polite , you cant remember because DIDN’T BORN ,Iran and USA was best friends and US military work in Iran ,and USA gave only Iran F-14 tomcat and f-18 and other fighters.No body wanna kill you , we know Americans, you are not American Because real American never say I am better than millions Iranian,even they are better ,but they never say it,fighter pilot has responsibility for save life of people NOT kill them ,That is why i say you are not American.
Just it
Henry Muller says
Babak,
I am an American, Babak. You should have one doubt about it. I know very well that Shah of Iran was a good friend not only of the United States, but also of Israel. If Carter would not sell Shah to the religious fanatics in 1979 we would not have this conversation. In fact America should strike Iran, when these religious inhumans did take American hostages. Mullahs should pay the price with their dirty blood for what they did. I am sure that Reagan would never allow this disgrace.
Now, Iranian nuclear program is direct threat to the security of the United Stated and the matter of survival for the State of Israel. This problem should be dealt with and unfortunately we can not have clean hands and have security at the same time. Get rid of these fanatics, shut off military aspect of their nuclear program, put the son of late shah in power and we will be friends again. I wish nothing but good to you, but not to those who support Ahmadinejad or Khamenei. These people should be dealt with and I am sure they will be dealt with. Either you are with us or you are with them. You have to choose. You can eliminate military aspect of Iranian nuclear program without using force, God bless you. And if you can not, step aside and let America or Israel to do the job. And yes, I do stand by my words. If America or Israel will do it, one drop of American or Israeli blood is more important that rivers of blood of those who tries to produce nuclear weapons in Iran and/or supports Ahmadinejad or mullahs. Remember once again it is you who have to decide: either you with America and Israel or you with Ahmadinejad.
Think about Babak and take the decision.
Henry Muller says
So Babak,
With whom are you,- with America and Israel or with Ahmadinejad ? Please get back if you are a man.
babak says
Im with AMERICA and ISRAEL ,till my last leak of my blood ,also ,im wiht my Iranian family and relatives ,we all with USA and ISAREL that i say is totaly fact.Ok I say you we hate ahmadinejad,but we cannot start war with them because Iran is our land we will died or prison and then all world say yes ,is right why should attack his land,he is crazy,and all accept i should be punish so no use.dont forget Iran is not Libya ,Iran is republic and every 4 years president will change ,so everybody hope to be better next president ,that is the reason of iran people’s silent.exept it people cant start war ,no energy ,,also they block evey possible ways,war is not talk need gun ,where is gun? where is support ? unfortunetly Asian countries also support ahmadinejad because they think Iran is best choice to be a wall for anti-western culture for Asia.so they wants to be like this and while Iran and USA and ISRAEL busy with this ,they have good time to prepair for Anti-western cuture,i know American culture are coming and Iranian say welcome ,but asian gov, dont say welcome and let Irans gov be a good block for it.so i think if USA or ISRAEL dont start war ,every day ahmadinejad will more powewrful be sure about it.i say you only possible way,one jet fighter of ISRAEL OR USA With Iranian pilot or co-pilot should attack to IRAN’s gov.just it.
GOD BLESS USA ,ISRAEL,FREE IRAN,FREE ALL OVER THE WORLD.
Henry Muller says
Thank you Babak I know quite a few Iranians in America and they agree with me. Ahmadinejad, Khamenei and other fanatics are destroying your country. All civilization built by the late Shah is destroyed.
I repeat that Iranian nuclear program is the major threat to the America and Israel and should be dealt with no matter what it takes. If you, or people like you can eliminate it, you should be supported every possible way. If you can take your country back, God bless you.
Iran is not a democracy. Ahmadinejad did falsify last elections and people like him will falsify the next one. Him and the clerics are the cancer of Iran, that should be operated and eliminated once and for all. Then you, Babak, can have your country back. And sooner it happens better is for all of us.
You made the right choice. God bless you and help you with everything.
Henry Muller
babak says
usa iraq and dirty israel should pay for chemical weapons who dead in iran -iraq war in our people children ,old,young ,men and women,we will fall on ground your dirty bloods ,all rubbishes you are and your way is totally going to shut down ,im with myself ,im with my people,im with that mens in iraq iran war dead and dirty usa support iraq and give them chemical weapond ,i hope wipe from the world map israel and usa and britain
just it
ardiles diogo says
Whenever resebo your posts get more motivated as this and my dream of being a pilot more muslin not know when, how, and where we ate because I am so far for last agradesso for sending me the messages chia of will I have to be a pilot muslin esperro that motivates me more with tips pans
Henry Muller says
Babak,
Saddam Hussein manufactured chemical weapons without any help from United States, Israel or Britain. Israel wiped out Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981, saving everybody, including Iran from nuclear armed Iraq. Iranians tried to do it, bit they achieved exactly nothing. So what are complaining about ? Instead thanking Israel you want to wipe it out ? I tell you that you your hands are too short to do it. Do not worry about Israel, America or Britain. Wipe out better from the face of the earth Ahmadinejad, Khamenei and all other mullahs. Then you can go back to Iran and do what you please there.